I think you know what you are doing here... :)
By catman
#281670
In my view QDM works if you have a massive property (pretty rare) or you can get your neighbors to care. If your neighbors don't care and you only have a few hundred acres you can spend/do all you like and you might not see any results. Fortunately in most states the age structure is going up so everyone is getting better opportunities at older deer.
Part of this is the increase in the herd size. Here in NE when I was a bowhunting maniac (before kids) you could only harvest 2 deer per year. The herd grew and for the last 10 years or so you could buy as many doe tags as you wanted. Now lots of people have shot lots of deer and are fine to let a little one pass that they would have dropped like a bag of hammers in the past.

I can see where it would be a very rewarding endeavor and kind of fun but for most people it will not likely have the effect they are thinking of when they decide to begin.
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By hazelvillebucks
#281676
I have a database of about 5 years of photos and camera data. I have a wireless camera network with 11 cameras running 24/7/365. This allow me to look at trend data to make management decisions. THere are some old threads over on the camera forums that show the DIY software I use as well as some of the commercial systems available for doing this tracking. The data really helps with some folks, but others respond to the pictures. I don't really care if neighbors shoot does or not. We will shot every doe we can until the biologist and data tell us to slow down. My concern is neighbors shooting young bucks. By showing they a young spike with a unique antler characteristic and then showing them pictures of that same deer each year until he is 3 1/2 years old many finally realize passing young bucks pays off.

We own far too little acreage to get the most out of QDM (just under 400 acres), but when we include the land of neighbors with different levels of cooperation, we are a little over 800 acres. That is getting pretty close to realistic with our habitat.

We are not basing our goals on rack size. Doing that makes it pretty easy to have unrealistic goals. We are setting our goals based on buck age. Each deer we harvest is aged. We are trying to restore the age structure to our herd.



you make some really nice points, i have less land then you and i have found that when one gets the age structure and the herd in balance it is a different world. when there is close to one buck for every doe the competition is intense , it is in those situations that one can really enjoy techniques like rattling and calling. the rut will usually be much more intense. the downside is that the bucks engage in increased fighting which can lead to broken hats or worse. when you do habitat work it benefits more than the deer, it allows one to have there own heaven on earth, while it takes work and determination the results are worth it to me. q.d.m.a. is a great organization. overtime one knows what needs to be done and why. build it and they will come.
By Sodbuster
#281723
I would caution anyone who wants to go running around showing their neighbors all of their big buck pics. Unless you really know your neighbors, then you're just telling everyone where the big ones and the other deer are at, opening yourself to tresspassing (which can lead to theft of cams and stands) and poaching. It only takes one neighbor to put a hurting on the herd dynamics. I've seen this first hand on 2 of our properties. I keep my cards close to the vest when talking to neighbors about deer.
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By hazelvillebucks
#281750
I would caution anyone who wants to go running around showing their neighbors all of their big buck pics. Unless you really know your neighbors, then you're just telling everyone where the big ones and the other deer are at, opening yourself to tresspassing (which can lead to theft of cams and stands) and poaching. It only takes one neighbor to put a hurting on the herd dynamics. I've seen this first hand on 2 of our properties. I keep my cards close to the vest when talking to neighbors about deer.

while there are some people that are as you describe most people are desent and want to do the right thing, while i do not show off what there is to those that are beyond help most can handle it and by showin the proof it helps them as well as you in our development. what hurts is when the neighbores become better hunters but that is all that one can ask for. the ethical pursuit of the mythical creatures. like everything else there is competition but when the attitudes change and the bar is reset at a higher level it is a win win situation. people can grow , THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD CAN GROW, screw the lost ones.
By Steve S
#281752
I would caution anyone who wants to go running around showing their neighbors all of their big buck pics. Unless you really know your neighbors, then you're just telling everyone where the big ones and the other deer are at, opening yourself to tresspassing (which can lead to theft of cams and stands) and poaching. It only takes one neighbor to put a hurting on the herd dynamics. I've seen this first hand on 2 of our properties. I keep my cards close to the vest when talking to neighbors about deer.

while there are some people that are as you describe most people are desent and want to do the right thing, while i do not show off what there is to those that are beyond help most can handle it and by showin the proof it helps them as well as you in our development. what hurts is when the neighbores become better hunters but that is all that one can ask for. the ethical pursuit of the mythical creatures. like everything else there is competition but when the attitudes change and the bar is reset at a higher level it is a win win situation. people can grow , THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD CAN GROW, screw the lost ones.

Well said, and keep in mind the whole purpose of a QDM program isn't all about big bucks but rather having healthy thriving deer bucks, does and fawns on your land
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By slay
#281755
Ahh...always the utopian spirit eh Haze. :lol:

While I would like to believe all is well and good with the human race, I know firsthand that deer hunting is not sacrosanct to all who roam the woodlots. It may very well just boil down to where you are and who lives near you. In heavily hunted Pa, I assure you a large rack will draw out the vermin. While I don't mind being outcompeted fairly, I hate folks who know nothing of the ground and move in on a great buck just because he exists. Trust me, it aint the neighbors I am worried about. I can outhunt them. It's their friends, distant relatives, and trespassers who will drive miles out of their way once they find out a true trophy walks among us.
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By hazelvillebucks
#281851
Ahh...always the utopian spirit eh Haze. :lol:

While I would like to believe all is well and good with the human race, I know firsthand that deer hunting is not sacrosanct to all who roam the woodlots. It may very well just boil down to where you are and who lives near you. In heavily hunted Pa, I assure you a large rack will draw out the vermin. While I don't mind being outcompeted fairly, I hate folks who know nothing of the ground and move in on a great buck just because he exists. Trust me, it aint the neighbors I am worried about. I can outhunt them. It's their friends, distant relatives, and trespassers who will drive miles out of their way once they find out a true trophy walks among us.

yea but they also know about people who may be a tad off kilter. it is another of the attitudes that takes time to change but when people start to see what can be- one is not all alone.in my community pinchusion was the great ambassador for the hazelville bucks , he brought together the community, it was not who killed him it was that everyone only wished for a ethical end to a great buck.the wrong people can damage the process but they can not destroy the dream. the hazelville buck has always been but now he has a little help and there are more of him. if those you fear were true hunters they would know that there are more bigs than ever. it is not the kill, if it was one would not get much chance to hunt. the dream is witnessing the way things are supposed to be and growing like everyone else so that it can be even better.
By Steve S
#311967
Yes it's worthwhile, on my lease the average weight used to be 56 lbs. we're now taking some bucks over 200 lbs and does just under that, Our avg weight on bucks are now in the 150 160 range, it takes time, study and research not to mention members willing to allowing the small deer to walk
By speed2spare
#311975
I like when these old threads pop back up and I see my old posts and still agree with my thoughts of the time. :P

Another thought about managing for big bucks in general. Not too many years into it, it becomes real work and some of the simple joys of deer hunting leave.

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Potty trained turkey

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: don't drink the water !!!

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Nice one towards the end there