I think you know what you are doing here... :)
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By hookedoncameras
#279703
I try but it is hard to go it alone.
By Steve S
#279704
As hard as I tried to leave this topic alone, I failed!! Does QDM work? YES!! Is it worth it? YES!! Is it easy? NO!!, I'm fortunate enough to have one of the largest hunting leases in North GA, just a touch over five square miles and have had it for a number of years. Skipping a lot of the details I took over an old club and the average size deer at that time in this area was 56 lbs, today the average weight of our mature bucks is 155 lbs. and we've harvested some the last few years over 200 lbs and a doe weighted in at 197lbs. Being in GA helped and the timing also, Brian Murphy, the founder of QDMA had started his organization here in Athens GA about the same time I acquired the lease, I was among the first members. was hooked on the concept and still am. Like many others, I thought just jumping on the tractor, using the knowledge I had learned farming and planting a few acres of attractants was the answer, boy was I wrong! Back on topic, QDM can and does work on both large and small tracts, guys, the best advice I can give you is to visit QDMA's website and then your local library , read and study about the whitetail's in your area and learn what's needed for them, then make a QMD plan and stick to it, one excellent book is The Deer of North America by Leonard Lee Rue III. I after trying many different seed Co's I found Whitetail Institute's products and started planting them in almost all the clubs plots, the two I use most is IWC and Alpha-Rack, At that time I still thought I could take short cuts, wrong again, I've also been called crazy for spending as much as I have on lime here but I learned it takes proper soil to grow good, high protein plants for deer browse for the long haul.
By Sopchoppy
#279705
Nice story w/pics. I feel you can attract deer regardless of size to any size plot if you are planting better stuff than anyone else around. It's " you build it and they will come". The ONLY way to grow and hold mature deer is not most but EVERYONE is practicing QDM. If one person is not on the same page as you, bucks won't make it to 3 years old. The proximity to your property increases when the rut kicks in. Bucks will travel miles looking for a hot doe and will get shot.
By Steve S
#279708
Nice story w/pics. I feel you can attract deer regardless of size to any size plot if you are planting better stuff than anyone else around. It's " you build it and they will come". The ONLY way to grow and hold mature deer is not most but EVERYONE is practicing QDM. If one person is not on the same page as you, bucks won't make it to 3 years old. The proximity to your property increases when the rut kicks in. Bucks will travel miles looking for a hot doe and will get shot.

Your both right and wrong, on small tracts then yes your right, to solve that problem, talk with the landowners around you about it, I know one man who did and was surprised when the guy said he'd wanted to practice QMD but didn't think others around him would, on large tracts your wrong, on five squares miles or more of hunting land, its been proven what the people around you does has no effect on the deer herds on the five square mile or larger tracts, As a rule, bucks will travel appox a mile in an elliptical loop and stay in that range
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By hazelvillebucks
#279713
Nice story w/pics. I feel you can attract deer regardless of size to any size plot if you are planting better stuff than anyone else around. It's " you build it and they will come". The ONLY way to grow and hold mature deer is not most but EVERYONE is practicing QDM. If one person is not on the same page as you, bucks won't make it to 3 years old. The proximity to your property increases when the rut kicks in. Bucks will travel miles looking for a hot doe and will get shot.


one can not worry about those who choose a different path,one can only control his own heart, it does not hurt to preach but some will never see what you are talking about. while many start out with good intentions by the time the sun rises they are lowering there standards. when the bullets start flying is when sanctuary is the key. lets face it we all live a life of haste, we are way to often spinning around trying to do to many things at the same time, when the huntin season opens it takes at least a week to change one into a hunter. what happens is these people come spinning in ,sight in there rifles ,scout ,but up stands , while using four wheelers that were never there before. you will hear a few shoots the first morning a few more day to but by day three they are complaining that there are no deer. these people are not a great threat to the mature deer, q.d.m.a. can provide you with much information based on research that can make your property the go to place when this occurs.
it is true that a toy buck is still at much threat but when the assult drives out all the deer he to will retreat to sanctuary .
it has been stated that some things will not work as well in ag country, people have suggested to me that i would be better off not planting food. from what i see from the real farmers they grow a really good crop but if the conditions are right they take everything a way. the good news is that over time things tend to get better as people grow and success at better bucks leads to a raising of the bar. well if nothin else q.d.m.a. [ my version ]keeps me busy. i have a tree that is called faith.
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By DonMcJr
#279741
Really it doesn't matter if you're neighbors practice the same as you. "Half-Horn Hulk" made it to 5.5 years old and I have 2 Does , "Blunt-Nose" and "Scar-Back" that disappear when the shooting start only to show up on my cams in Late January.

They find Hiding places and/or go nocturnal.

So...even on a very small 7 acres like mine you can still have success. You just can't get discouraged if you know a buck or 2 gets shot by neighbors just remember the smart ones aren't gonna get shot and may hide on your safe property under your nose!

I know QDM is all about Property Management, Letting young buck grow and only shooting Does when/IF your area needs it. 4 years ago for some reason my area didn't. Now I am seeing a lot more Deer and probably next year I will need to shoot a Doe or 2.

I'm just sad that like around in my area in SE Michigan QDM has a bad name due to one guy who spoke to local hunters at events with comments like " I'm sick of seeing scrawny bucks you guys gotta shoot every Doe and pass all the small bucks and then you'll be shooting Big Bucks like me"

It's ALOT more than just shooting Does, in fact if you shoot too many Does you could really take away all the deer that are making your Bucks!
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By Ol Arky
#279745
We don't just shoot doe, we shoot a singled out doe... Leave the breeders the ol' barren un taste just as good... :mrgreen:
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By hazelvillebucks
#279751
Really it doesn't matter if you're neighbors practice the same as you. "Half-Horn Hulk" made it to 5.5 years old and I have 2 Does , "Blunt-Nose" and "Scar-Back" that disappear when the shooting start only to show up on my cams in Late January.

They find Hiding places and/or go nocturnal.

So...even on a very small 7 acres like mine you can still have success. You just can't get discouraged if you know a buck or 2 gets shot by neighbors just remember the smart ones aren't gonna get shot and may hide on your safe property under your nose!

I know QDM is all about Property Management, Letting young buck grow and only shooting Does when/IF your area needs it. 4 years ago for some reason my area didn't. Now I am seeing a lot more Deer and probably next year I will need to shoot a Doe or 2.

I'm just sad that like around in my area in SE Michigan QDM has a bad name due to one guy who spoke to local hunters at events with comments like " I'm sick of seeing scrawny bucks you guys gotta shoot every Doe and pass all the small bucks and then you'll be shooting Big Bucks like me"

It's ALOT more than just shooting Does, in fact if you shoot too many Does you could really take away all the deer that are making your Bucks!

you are right q.d.m.a. is about a lot more than the shooting of does,it is education of the what ,why, where ,and how. it brings research and science into the game but the hardest thing to control is people ,even yourself,when you screw up double your efforts . it is possible q.d.m.a is a great organization. but not all are lookin to give back.
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By DonMcJr
#279794
We don't just shoot doe, we shoot a singled out doe... Leave the breeders the ol' barren un taste just as good... :mrgreen:


Exactly. That's Doe Management which is one part of QDMA... What I was getting at was uneducated people that Promote QDMA and say all you have to do is shoot all the Does...

There was one guy around here thatspoke for QDMA. That's what he said and it made all the hunters basically boo him and they were telling him to sit down and shut up cause that was 2 years ago and almost every hunter around weren't seeing ANY deer! I actually sent QDMA an email about him and the next year at one of the local Buck Contest Awards he was there but so were 2 other QDMA Guys and they got it right but from the last guy and him still being there most hunters still didn't listen...

I mean what I do is actually QDMA but I will not hang the sign on my property nor use that term around here because of that one guy and how he made the QDMA name sour around here.

I personally shoot whatever I feel like as far as Bucks... I usually wait for a Big Boy that I haven't seen on my cameras. If someone else wants to shoot a spike and it's a Trophy to them then awesome ok by me! I build my land to help the deer and make sure I shoot does if needed and take whatever Buck that I say when I see it..." Wow he'd look nice on my wall!

It's all about enjoying Hunting and the Outdoors not a "Biggest Rack" contest although a Booner would be a sweet BONUS! 8)

Looky as I type this the deer are coming into my Food Plot and I am watching them on my wireless 24-7 Foscam Wireles IP Cam! Very cool! :D
By Steve S
#279810
Really it doesn't matter if you're neighbors practice the same as you. "Half-Horn Hulk" made it to 5.5 years old and I have 2 Does , "Blunt-Nose" and "Scar-Back" that disappear when the shooting start only to show up on my cams in Late January.

They find Hiding places and/or go nocturnal.

So...even on a very small 7 acres like mine you can still have success. You just can't get discouraged if you know a buck or 2 gets shot by neighbors just remember the smart ones aren't gonna get shot and may hide on your safe property under your nose!

I know QDM is all about Property Management, Letting young buck grow and only shooting Does when/IF your area needs it. 4 years ago for some reason my area didn't. Now I am seeing a lot more Deer and probably next year I will need to shoot a Doe or 2.

I'm just sad that like around in my area in SE Michigan QDM has a bad name due to one guy who spoke to local hunters at events with comments like " I'm sick of seeing scrawny bucks you guys gotta shoot every Doe and pass all the small bucks and then you'll be shooting Big Bucks like me"

It's ALOT more than just shooting Does, in fact if you shoot too many Does you could really take away all the deer that are making your Bucks!

you are right q.d.m.a. is about a lot more than the shooting of does,it is education of the what ,why, where ,and how. it brings research and science into the game but the hardest thing to control is people ,even yourself,when you screw up double your efforts . it is possible q.d.m.a is a great organization. but not all are lookin to give back.

two great post, there's so much more to QDM other than hammering does, it takes educating hunters on the what why's and how's One example, I don't think the fact bucks shed their antlers and very soon after, start growing their new racks would be news to any hunter but what about this, a bucks velvet antler is 80% protein and the harden rack is 45% protein, the Q.D.M.A. is about sharing knowledge with other hunters who are open to and willing to learn about deer, their needs and the requirement's they have to have to grow and thrive
By blackoak
#280065
In my opinion QDM only works if you have several square miles in a chunk. I am in midwest farm country so food plots do not play a huge factor here. Age is the key factor for us.

QDM started in this area about 25 years ago. It went from 95% of all bucks being shot at 1 1/2 to now having 4 and 5 year old deer not being uncommon. The longer an area stays in managing you naturally let bigger and bigger deer have a free pass. You only want so many 130" deer mounted before saying may as well let them live another year and see if we can get into the 140's.

Be careful as to what you wish for. Bigger deer in an area cause as many problems as they do joys. Friendly neighbors become enemies, poachers arive in mass, and shiners make your deer herd nocturnal in about a week once the crops come out.

I don't understand you logic. How can shining deer at night make them go nocturnal. Hunting pressure during daylight hours can and do make mature deer go nocturnal, but I have never heard of night time pressure by legal spot lighting making one nocturnal. About half my pre season scouting is at night using a Q-Beam.
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By slay
#280099
I don't believe "shining" deer makes them nocturnal. I do agree with his assessment concerning folks flocking to take the big bucks down that they see as a result of their spotlighting efforts though. A lot of things do come into play here. I have 30 acres, yet there is no sanctuary anywhere around where the deer can thrive unmolested on my land nor the adjacent parcels. Driving deer is part of the culture and tradition here. They are relentless at hoofing it through every parcel of land here. They are darn good at doing it also. Still, there are a few who do survive despite all of that. But it could be so much better.

Be thankful if you live where the hunter density is smaller than where I am at. I practice my own version of QDM. I don't take does when the numbers are low, and I pass on bucks smaller than 130". How else can I let juniors and seniors get that lesser buck that is a true trophy in their eyes?

I always hope that one beats the odds because of my own personal standards.
It's all I can do....at least until I can hit the lottery and purchase my own 12,000 acre ranch out in the midwest. :wink:
By BrianWI
#281584
Even with a small property, you can lead by example.

It is surprising what neighbors may be thinking. Maybe they shoot anything because they just want meat in the freezer. Maybe you can let them handle the doe culling then and they will let more bucks walk. Maybe they thought you shot all the young bucks.

Heck, give them a trail camera for Christmas and maybe they'll get hooked like us and QDMA will follow.
By Steve S
#281616
Even with a small property, you can lead by example.

It is surprising what neighbors may be thinking. Maybe they shoot anything because they just want meat in the freezer. Maybe you can let them handle the doe culling then and they will let more bucks walk. Maybe they thought you shot all the young bucks.

Heck, give them a trail camera for Christmas and maybe they'll get hooked like us and QDMA will follow.

That's a great idea! Up until recently I had used trail camera's like most other hunters but then I read an article on how to use them to "monitor" the deer and get a count on the number of deer in different areas and where they are the different times of the year. its hard for someone to argue with you about how many deer a area will hold when you show him the photos
By yoderj@cox.net
#281669
I have a database of about 5 years of photos and camera data. I have a wireless camera network with 11 cameras running 24/7/365. This allow me to look at trend data to make management decisions. THere are some old threads over on the camera forums that show the DIY software I use as well as some of the commercial systems available for doing this tracking. The data really helps with some folks, but others respond to the pictures. I don't really care if neighbors shoot does or not. We will shot every doe we can until the biologist and data tell us to slow down. My concern is neighbors shooting young bucks. By showing they a young spike with a unique antler characteristic and then showing them pictures of that same deer each year until he is 3 1/2 years old many finally realize passing young bucks pays off.

We own far too little acreage to get the most out of QDM (just under 400 acres), but when we include the land of neighbors with different levels of cooperation, we are a little over 800 acres. That is getting pretty close to realistic with our habitat.

We are not basing our goals on rack size. Doing that makes it pretty easy to have unrealistic goals. We are setting our goals based on buck age. Each deer we harvest is aged. We are trying to restore the age structure to our herd.

I got this sequence off the camera last night. wh[…]

Potty trained turkey

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Nice one towards the end there