I think you know what you are doing here... :)
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By slay
#280227
You are probably spot on Steve. I used to give them little credence myself. In my state our minds got muddled by the intensive deer herd reduction instituted by our game commission along the same time that our coyote populations started climbing. If this HR program had not gone into effect, hunters may have questioned the waning deer numbers and not attributed it all to hunters decimating their numbers. As it is, I have always blamed the decline in small game and turkeys on the proliferation of birds of prey since they are also under federal protection. I think you have maybe made me question my assertions on that. It is most likely a combination of both.

The problem with coyotes is they are like an invisible ghost. They are rarely seen in daylight and apparently extremely adaptive to hunters and trappers.
By yoderj@cox.net
#280228
Jack, I assure you I spend enough time afield to make my determinations...



Like anyone else, I have to work hard to set my personal observations and conclusions aside and base our management decisions on hard data.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that without hard trend data it is really hard to tell.

It reminds me of a study I once read about. Hunters were equipped with tracking devices. After the hunt, they were all surveyed and ask all kinds of questions about their hunt including what they saw and how far from their vehicle they ventured. When the tracking device data was analyzed, it was compared to how far the hunters reported they walked from their vehicle. It was amazing at how much they overestimated had deeply they penetrated the woods.

The point is the more time we spend in the field only increases our confidence that our observations reflect reality rather than actually making them more accurate.

Either way, it is a tough problem.

Thanks,

Jack
By Steve S
#280233
You are probably spot on Steve. I used to give them little credence myself. In my state our minds got muddled by the intensive deer herd reduction instituted by our game commission along the same time that our coyote populations started climbing. If this HR program had not gone into effect, hunters may have questioned the waning deer numbers and not attributed it all to hunters decimating their numbers. As it is, I have always blamed the decline in small game and turkeys on the proliferation of birds of prey since they are also under federal protection. I think you have maybe made me question my assertions on that. It is most likely a combination of both.

The problem with coyotes is they are like an invisible ghost. They are rarely seen in daylight and apparently extremely adaptive to hunters and trappers.

Slay, you described almost the same there that happened in Ga, about the same time the yotes showed up, the state raised the "limit" to 10 does and 2 bucks and the results are hard to believe, There's a article I have stuck some place called the predator pit, its goes into detail of what has happened in some areas where both hunters and coyotes killed huge amounts of deer, the prediction is, in those areas, it'll be years before the herds will recover. I've since started to learn the art of trapping and my personal count is 70 trapped out of the appox 200 18 months
By Steve S
#311968
I use Whitetail Institute Imperial Clover and love it! The deer love it too!

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The same here W.I. clover and alfa rack is the best stuff on the market, We're taking bucks now that were only a dream in North Ga now because of it and alfa rack, yes it cost more and in it long run well worth it in the long run
By yoderj@cox.net
#311995
The same here W.I. clover and alfa rack is the best stuff on the market, We're taking bucks now that were only a dream in North Ga now because of it and alfa rack, yes it cost more and in it long run well worth it in the long run


I completely disagree. What crop is the best fit really depends on you objectives and application. For most QDM applications the key is getting the most benefit out of limited resources. There are far better ways to do that than WI products. Nothing against them. Folks should completely ignore the brand and marketing information and focus on the seed tag. Figure out if the varieties, and mix in many cases, in the bag fit your application. Next figure out how to maximize those given your limited resources.

BOB (Buck on Bag) seed companies like WI have their place. They may be the most economical and convenient way for a guy who is only planting a small half acre plot to get a seed mix. The high percentage markup on the seed to cover the advertising and marketing is unimportant when your absolute cost numbers are small. However, they make little sense for folks doing QDM on a scale large enough to have a measurable impact on the herd. Nothing is absolute, and there are some exceptions but WI certainly isn't one of them in my opinion.

By the way, just for disclosure purposes, I don't sell any products and am not associated with any company in this industry. I'm just a long-time QDMer.

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