Thief=1, Me=0 as of right now.

D Mayes · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:42 pm

A picture will be great evidence to prosecute some one for trespassing if the picture is on your own land and shows the person on your land. In this case the picture shows the man on the neighboring property and he can't prosecute a guy for being on neighboring property without legal control over the land as in a lease agreement etc.

SportsmanNH · **Posted:** Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:54 pm

One thing we dont know is he may very well have permission to be on the neighboring property. After all , he is a neighbor. He may be one of the nicest guys in the world .

wolvenkinde · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:31 am

phoneguy44 wrote:

Well RR, here's the deal. Where his land meets my land, is on the complete other side ! Where I had my cams pointed is not even his land. I've already talked to that land owner and he says nobody should be out there hunting. Which means he aint even suppose to be there. I'm just trying to resolve this without conflict. Sheriff says he can get it back, I'm going to put my trust in him right now.

wolvenkinde wrote:

...bring law enforcement there and have them take another picture...problem is the suspect in the photo is trespassing on the other neighbors property so he(the other neighbor) would have to make the complaint.

its all a big guessing game for us observer/commentators right now but as to the last couple posts - THIS^^^

D Mayes · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:44 am

wolvenkinde wrote:

phoneguy44 wrote:

Well RR, here's the deal. Where his land meets my land, is on the complete other side ! Where I had my cams pointed is not even his land. I've already talked to that land owner and he says nobody should be out there hunting. Which means he aint even suppose to be there. I'm just trying to resolve this without conflict. Sheriff says he can get it back, I'm going to put my trust in him right now.

wolvenkinde wrote:

...bring law enforcement there and have them take another picture...problem is the suspect in the photo is trespassing on the other neighbors property so he(the other neighbor) would have to make the complaint.

its all a big guessing game for us observer/commentators right now but as to the last couple posts - THIS^^^

That is basically the same point I was trying to make. It is up to the landowner to press the charges and in this case it is not phoneguy. Now it would be great it the landowner did get involved if the offender really doesn't have permission to be there. He can simply say he won't press charges if the camera was returned.

john.hatchett · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:11 am

wolvenkinde wrote:

Proving the trespass is easy...just like fingerprints are unique so is the backgound...treebark patterns, tree stem placement and species, other features...all unique...bring law enforcement there and have them take another picture...problem is the suspect in the photo is trespassing on the other neighbors property so he(the other neighbor) would have to make the complaint.

unfortunately it takes about 2 minutes to layer a picture of someone onto a background. if a law enforcement officer can be duped into making an arrest based only on a photo we have a serious problem. a photo from a game camera is NOT a witness. you can make a statement that the photo represents something you have witnessed and the officer should and will take action, but that will blow up on you if it is later determined that you provided false witness (i.e. did not personally see the person trespassing).

there are photos that qualify as digital witnesses, like the red light cameras in some towns, but they are certified as such.

Takem · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:47 am **Posts:** 376

john.hatchett · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:51 am

Takem wrote:

John unfortunately its been common practice for all neighbors with property to put out cameras get the picture of the trespasser on property then sheriff goes with land owner to spot of picture and then seeks out individual and makes arrests it has been this way for the past 3-4 years as i have talked with the sheriff multiple times on this matter.In almost every case the person has pleaded guilty in the few that went to trail they all where found guilty as the sheriff testified to location and individual in picture.

If they end up pleading guilty then you would be off the hook. If the only evidence at trial was the photo, they didn't have a qualified lawyer, IMO. all of us know how easy it is to doctor a digital trail cam photograph.

talks2elk · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:22 pm

john.hatchett wrote:

.

unfortunately it takes about 2 minutes to layer a picture of someone onto a background. if a law enforcement officer can be duped into making an arrest based only on a photo we have a serious problem. a photo from a game camera is NOT a witness. you can make a statement that the photo represents something you have witnessed and the officer should and will take action, but that will blow up on you if it is later determined that you provided false witness (i.e. did not personally see the person trespassing).

there are photos that qualify as digital witnesses, like the red light cameras in some towns, but they are certified as such.[/quote]

3 yrs ago I had a lady trespasser that a camera had takened a perfect picture of. I made a hard copy picture and called sheriff. They came out and took a report from me and asked for wittnesses. I told them the only witness I had was my trail camera and showed the picture. They told me they could'nt use the picture and asked if I had the SD card that contained the pic. I said yes I did and they took the SD card from me as evidence. Long story told short, DA would'nt charge her. Got my SD card back end of story. So I believe John

wolvenkinde · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:52 pm

The layering leaves an electronic trail as well...file names and types and residual information from the doctoring esp on the sd cards - if its original any computer tech can testify to authenticity...sounds like the lady had some connections talks2elk.

D Mayes · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:34 pm

I am going to side with Takem and wolvenkinde on this. Pictures have been used all the time to prove a case. If they can't be used to charge someone then how can they be used to convict someone? Pictures and surveillance video are used all the time in court. Now as far as someone being charged for providing false witness with a picture then the picture would have to be fake or altered. Which is another case altogether that would have to be proven. That is not what we are talking about here. I thought we was talking about taking a picture straight off a camera and using it to prosecute someone. My guess is someone needs a new DA if they won't charge someone with solid unedited picture evidence.

john.hatchett · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:35 pm

wolvenkinde wrote:

any computer tech can testify to authenticity...

exactly my point. unqualified "experts" are often duped into testimony. best to have a law officer witness the trespass, or at least multiple unrelated parties providing evidence.

put yourself into the boots of an accused trespasser. if you were accused of trespassing how would you defend yourself? I would ask for all the evidence, then I would discredit the evidence and file charges against the accuser for making false statements. If the accuser then decided to provide additional evidence, the rules of the court would allow me to have it barred and even allow me to file additional charges against the accuser for withholding evidence from my initial request for ALL evidence. Also, in my defense I would request disclosure and expert inspection of all the accuser's equipment, software, and experience with digital photography, as well as that of any person who he has known in the years surrounding the "evidence" that might have the skills to manipulate the evidence. all this would have to be provided at the expense of the accuser.

meanwhile, I would also prepare the materials to support my lawful presence on the property should it be needed. active pursuit of a wounded game animal is legal in my area. ferral pig hunting is allowed year round, day and night in my area as well. common confusion over un fenced property boundaries and changing property ownership is reasonable as well. I may have had access permission or an easement from the previous owner and was not notified of a change in ownership. weather conditions, like a flooded creek, or freezing temperatures, may have created a situation where I needed to cross the property for legitimate safety reasons. there may have been other hunters endangering the safety of my normal route, etc... the photo by itself does not provide much of a witness to all of the circumstances.

wolvenkinde · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:47 pm

It's F'd up when making or breaking the law comes down to money...cost of prosecution etc....or if you have enough to "purchase a free pass with good legal B.S. or political connections" ...kind of makes me sick. Also if you are guilty, AND lie as stated by mr hatchett...you should be prosecuted for that and shunned as well period!

john.hatchett · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:05 pm

I guess what I am trying to say with all this is be careful before making any public accusation. A false accusation, one you cannot prove, can bite you worse than expected. Let the sheriff, a game warden, or any law officer make the accusation.

When the law officer asks you if you want to file the charge ask them if they will instead. It's a subtle difference but worthwhile.

john.hatchett · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:42 pm

wolvenkinde wrote:

It's F'd up when making or breaking the law comes down to money...cost of prosecution etc....or if you have enough to "purchase a free pass with good legal B.S. or political connections" ...kind of makes me sick. Also if you are guilty, AND lie as stated by mr hatchett...you should be prosecuted for that and shunned as well period!

remember that "due process" if your friend, not your enemy.

D Mayes · **Posted:** Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:38 pm

john.hatchett wrote:

put yourself into the boots of an accused trespasser. if you were accused of trespassing how would you defend yourself? I would ask for all the evidence, then I would discredit the evidence and file charges against the accuser for making false statements. If the accuser then decided to provide additional evidence, the rules of the court would allow me to have it barred and even allow me to file additional charges against the accuser for withholding evidence from my initial request for ALL evidence. Also, in my defense I would request disclosure and expert inspection of all the accuser's equipment, software, and experience with digital photography, as well as that of any person who he has known in the years surrounding the "evidence" that might have the skills to manipulate the evidence. all this would have to be provided at the expense of the accuser.

meanwhile, I would also prepare the materials to support my lawful presence on the property should it be needed. active pursuit of a wounded game animal is legal in my area. ferral pig hunting is allowed year round, day and night in my area as well. common confusion over un fenced property boundaries and changing property ownership is reasonable as well. I may have had access permission or an easement from the previous owner and was not notified of a change in ownership. weather conditions, like a flooded creek, or freezing temperatures, may have created a situation where I needed to cross the property for legitimate safety reasons. there may have been other hunters endangering the safety of my normal route, etc... the photo by itself does not provide much of a witness to all of the circumstances.

Wow you think a person that knows he is guilty will go through all that over a simple trespassing charge? We are talking about this case of the suspected camera theif right? Many of the situations you speek of still doesn't give people the right to trespass in this part of the country. Actually none of the situations you listed gives legal right to trespass here. Don't think this guy can claim any of them anyway. Granted if there was a legitimate safety reason I doubt any decent person would file charges and I don't think other hunters is a legitimate reason.

Are you serious that since pig season is open year round where you are I can come trespass and hunt on you legally?

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