I think you know what you are doing here... :)
By Steve S
#312553
Wow sorry guys for getting this started. You both have valid points. I have no doubt he increased the deer weight by adding all those food plots. How much??? I agree there is no magic bean out there but some beans are better than others. I have planted both Durana and Whitetail Institute and Whitetail grows much better here. Durana is slow to grow the first year and weeds will choke it out if you don't spray. Durana is suppose to last longer but I could not get a good stand started because of all weeds. QDM is a great tool if you can get enough people on the same page. Hard to do. Genetics are what they are. You are not changing them unless you fence in an area and import some deer from somewhere else. That being said you can help get the most out of what you have.

The only thing I do is
Feed soybeans in my feeders in the summer. 30 to 35% protein
Plant High protein food plots and yes this clover is cheaper in the long run by a mile. I'm not just looking at price of seed. Tractor time, Fuel, Cost to keep up equipment.
And if brand A has 25% protein compaired to brand B with 35% Im going with brand B as long as the deer still eat it.
I put out mineral sites

The way I look at it is, anything I can do to get them to eat what I offer is less time they are eating lower quality food. Does it make a difference?? I think it does even though I may not be able to tell. :)

Bow, sounds as if your doing pretty much the same as I do, one thing I'd suggest, BTW I'm to the point I do my own soil samples, keep an eye on your Ph levels and if there's either a Rainbow or Harrell's fertilizer dealer in your area try 5-10-15 with the micro-nutrients on your clover. As you say there's no magic bean so make sure you keep the quality of the soil you plant provided with the nutrients the plants need so it provides the nutrients the deer and other critters need
By Steve S
#312554
You very conveniently "failed" to notice I put neutral in paresis for you and the protein difference stated in the two products and your wrong about free ranging deer, I suggest you start by reading The Deer of North America by Leonard Lee Rue III, now you say you don't understand the comment about soil!!?? What does any plant grow in? Where does the plant get the nutrients passed along to whatever feeds on them, humans included? I'd suggest you study a great deal more on this subject before you say something I'm very proud of doing can't be done and what led to my interest in the use of game cameras to study them with.


Once again you mist the point and misdirect. I didn't say I don't understand the importance of soils, I said I didn't understand why you assumed I didn't understand the importance of soil testing. I'm not wrong about free ranging deer. All the scientific studies that have been conducted show that genetics can not be controlled in free ranging herds. There have been a number of computer models that look at DNA distribution. They show that regardless of how you manipulate the harvest, you can't have an impact on genetics.

I think at this point, folks can read this thread and make their own assessments. My points have been made. There are no magic beans and no companies products that can be credited with improving deer weights by 160%. Areas with good nutrition that were heavily hunted using older management techniques of buck only harvest where bucks rarely lived beyond 1 1/2 years may show marked improvements in buck weights simply by letting young bucks walk and improving the age structure. Trying to credit vast improvements in buck weights to a specific companies product is ridiculous.

LMAO so your stance is with the very limited knowledge of my program you have you feel confident to say that I'm lying!!! LMAO you have no idea of how long I've worked the program, how many acres is involved, our buck-doe ratio LOL You seem to have no knowledge of deer's habits and range, btw. its common knowledge that unless something drastic happens, deer will stay with a mile- mile and a half of its birth place and why 3000 acres is considered adequate for a successful QDM program, OOPS, sorry, I forgot, you know better than Brian Murphy does about these things!!
#312573
Wow sorry guys for getting this started. You both have valid points. I have no doubt he increased the deer weight by adding all those food plots. How much??? I agree there is no magic bean out there but some beans are better than others. I have planted both Durana and Whitetail Institute and Whitetail grows much better here. Durana is slow to grow the first year and weeds will choke it out if you don't spray. Durana is suppose to last longer but I could not get a good stand started because of all weeds. QDM is a great tool if you can get enough people on the same page. Hard to do. Genetics are what they are. You are not changing them unless you fence in an area and import some deer from somewhere else. That being said you can help get the most out of what you have.

The only thing I do is
Feed soybeans in my feeders in the summer. 30 to 35% protein
Plant High protein food plots and yes this clover is cheaper in the long run by a mile. I'm not just looking at price of seed. Tractor time, Fuel, Cost to keep up equipment.
And if brand A has 25% protein compaired to brand B with 35% Im going with brand B as long as the deer still eat it.
I put out mineral sites

The way I look at it is, anything I can do to get them to eat what I offer is less time they are eating lower quality food. Does it make a difference?? I think it does even though I may not be able to tell. :)



You are right, Durana is more persistent but it is much slower to establish. WI clover has a significant amount of berseem clover in the bag. Berseem is an inexpensive annual clover that pops right up. The WI rationale for this is that the berseem pops up so fast, it provides a cover crop for the improved varieties allowing them to establish. They don't mention that it allows them to include less of their improved varieties in the bag driving their cost down and your price up. Their improved varieties are very good clovers, just as good as Durana depending on the application.

To get a good stand of Durana, you need proper establishment. You need to plant it in the fall with a good winter rye cover crop. Depending on your location, you may see little performance beyond basic germination in the fall. The following spring, timely mowing is very important. Each time the WR hits about a foot or so, mow it back to 6". The WR has and allopathic effect on weeds as well as simply crowding them out. Mowing the WR sets it back without killing it. It also releases the Durana giving it more sun light. Over that first summer, let the WR die on its own. The Durana will fill in. By fall, you should have a lush Durana plot with zero herbicide use. Once fully established Durana is quite competitive against weeds. In fact, once I switched to Durana, I stopped mixing in chicory because the Durana took over the chicory so quickly that it wasn't worth it.

I agree with you that his adding food plots likely contributed to the increased weights. The particular brand of clover he used had no measurable effect.

Your clover plot looks great, and if the WI is working for you, I wouldn't change it. A large part of the equation is designing a program that fits your region and property specifics. Someone in ag country will have a very different program than someone in the pine farms of the south.

Personally, I don't use feeders. But I do plant a RR forage type soybeans in the summer with a light mix of corn. As far as choosing varieties of the same crop with higher advertised protein levels, you may be fooling yourself unless you are doing forage testing. Those advertised numbers are under optimal conditions. For example a variety that may be more drought resistant may test at higher levels of protein than a less drought resistant variety that is advertised at higher protein levels if you are in a drier area. Also keep in mind that there are some native foods like poke berries that are very high protein levels.

One last thing to consider. There have been no scientific studies in the literature that show mineral supplements have any beneficial impact on free ranging deer herds. Also, there are some risks associated with them. In general, point source attractants like this encourage more face to face contact than occurs naturally. Face to face contact is a disease vector for some diseases. So, if you are using them, it is a judgment call and the evidence is thin on both sides.

Keep up the great work, and I love the pic!

Thanks,

Jack
By Steve S
#312576
Wow sorry guys for getting this started. You both have valid points. I have no doubt he increased the deer weight by adding all those food plots. How much??? I agree there is no magic bean out there but some beans are better than others. I have planted both Durana and Whitetail Institute and Whitetail grows much better here. Durana is slow to grow the first year and weeds will choke it out if you don't spray. Durana is suppose to last longer but I could not get a good stand started because of all weeds. QDM is a great tool if you can get enough people on the same page. Hard to do. Genetics are what they are. You are not changing them unless you fence in an area and import some deer from somewhere else. That being said you can help get the most out of what you have.

The only thing I do is
Feed soybeans in my feeders in the summer. 30 to 35% protein
Plant High protein food plots and yes this clover is cheaper in the long run by a mile. I'm not just looking at price of seed. Tractor time, Fuel, Cost to keep up equipment.
And if brand A has 25% protein compaired to brand B with 35% Im going with brand B as long as the deer still eat it.
I put out mineral sites

The way I look at it is, anything I can do to get them to eat what I offer is less time they are eating lower quality food. Does it make a difference?? I think it does even though I may not be able to tell. :)



You are right, Durana is more persistent but it is much slower to establish. WI clover has a significant amount of berseem clover in the bag. Berseem is an inexpensive annual clover that pops right up. The WI rationale for this is that the berseem pops up so fast, it provides a cover crop for the improved varieties allowing them to establish. They don't mention that it allows them to include less of their improved varieties in the bag driving their cost down and your price up. Their improved varieties are very good clovers, just as good as Durana depending on the application.

To get a good stand of Durana, you need proper establishment. You need to plant it in the fall with a good winter rye cover crop. Depending on your location, you may see little performance beyond basic germination in the fall. The following spring, timely mowing is very important. Each time the WR hits about a foot or so, mow it back to 6". The WR has and allopathic effect on weeds as well as simply crowding them out. Mowing the WR sets it back without killing it. It also releases the Durana giving it more sun light. Over that first summer, let the WR die on its own. The Durana will fill in. By fall, you should have a lush Durana plot with zero herbicide use. Once fully established Durana is quite competitive against weeds. In fact, once I switched to Durana, I stopped mixing in chicory because the Durana took over the chicory so quickly that it wasn't worth it.

I agree with you that his adding food plots likely contributed to the increased weights. The particular brand of clover he used had no measurable effect.

Your clover plot looks great, and if the WI is working for you, I wouldn't change it. A large part of the equation is designing a program that fits your region and property specifics. Someone in ag country will have a very different program than someone in the pine farms of the south.

Personally, I don't use feeders. But I do plant a RR forage type soybeans in the summer with a light mix of corn. As far as choosing varieties of the same crop with higher advertised protein levels, you may be fooling yourself unless you are doing forage testing. Those advertised numbers are under optimal conditions. For example a variety that may be more drought resistant may test at higher levels of protein than a less drought resistant variety that is advertised at higher protein levels if you are in a drier area. Also keep in mind that there are some native foods like poke berries that are very high protein levels.

One last thing to consider. There have been no scientific studies in the literature that show mineral supplements have any beneficial impact on free ranging deer herds. Also, there are some risks associated with them. In general, point source attractants like this encourage more face to face contact than occurs naturally. Face to face contact is a disease vector for some diseases. So, if you are using them, it is a judgment call and the evidence is thin on both sides.

Keep up the great work, and I love the pic!

Thanks,

Jack

It all starts with a SOIL SAMPLE
User avatar
By bowhtr1
#312591
Wow sorry guys for getting this started. You both have valid points. I have no doubt he increased the deer weight by adding all those food plots. How much??? I agree there is no magic bean out there but some beans are better than others. I have planted both Durana and Whitetail Institute and Whitetail grows much better here. Durana is slow to grow the first year and weeds will choke it out if you don't spray. Durana is suppose to last longer but I could not get a good stand started because of all weeds. QDM is a great tool if you can get enough people on the same page. Hard to do. Genetics are what they are. You are not changing them unless you fence in an area and import some deer from somewhere else. That being said you can help get the most out of what you have.

The only thing I do is
Feed soybeans in my feeders in the summer. 30 to 35% protein
Plant High protein food plots and yes this clover is cheaper in the long run by a mile. I'm not just looking at price of seed. Tractor time, Fuel, Cost to keep up equipment.
And if brand A has 25% protein compaired to brand B with 35% Im going with brand B as long as the deer still eat it.
I put out mineral sites

The way I look at it is, anything I can do to get them to eat what I offer is less time they are eating lower quality food. Does it make a difference?? I think it does even though I may not be able to tell. :)

Bow, sounds as if your doing pretty much the same as I do, one thing I'd suggest, BTW I'm to the point I do my own soil samples, keep an eye on your Ph levels and if there's either a Rainbow or Harrell's fertilizer dealer in your area try 5-10-15 with the micro-nutrients on your clover. As you say there's no magic bean so make sure you keep the quality of the soil you plant provided with the nutrients the plants need so it provides the nutrients the deer and other critters need


Never heard of using 5-10-15 on clover. I use 0-20-20. I put out 300 lbs per acre each fall and spring. When I plant for the first time I use triple 17 and after that 0-20-20. I also lime a lot according to my soil test recommendations. 10 years ago in this plot my first soil sample showed a 4.8 ph.
User avatar
By bowhtr1
#312595
Wow sorry guys for getting this started. You both have valid points. I have no doubt he increased the deer weight by adding all those food plots. How much??? I agree there is no magic bean out there but some beans are better than others. I have planted both Durana and Whitetail Institute and Whitetail grows much better here. Durana is slow to grow the first year and weeds will choke it out if you don't spray. Durana is suppose to last longer but I could not get a good stand started because of all weeds. QDM is a great tool if you can get enough people on the same page. Hard to do. Genetics are what they are. You are not changing them unless you fence in an area and import some deer from somewhere else. That being said you can help get the most out of what you have.

The only thing I do is
Feed soybeans in my feeders in the summer. 30 to 35% protein
Plant High protein food plots and yes this clover is cheaper in the long run by a mile. I'm not just looking at price of seed. Tractor time, Fuel, Cost to keep up equipment.
And if brand A has 25% protein compaired to brand B with 35% Im going with brand B as long as the deer still eat it.
I put out mineral sites

The way I look at it is, anything I can do to get them to eat what I offer is less time they are eating lower quality food. Does it make a difference?? I think it does even though I may not be able to tell. :)



You are right, Durana is more persistent but it is much slower to establish. WI clover has a significant amount of berseem clover in the bag. Berseem is an inexpensive annual clover that pops right up. The WI rationale for this is that the berseem pops up so fast, it provides a cover crop for the improved varieties allowing them to establish. They don't mention that it allows them to include less of their improved varieties in the bag driving their cost down and your price up. Their improved varieties are very good clovers, just as good as Durana depending on the application.

To get a good stand of Durana, you need proper establishment. You need to plant it in the fall with a good winter rye cover crop. Depending on your location, you may see little performance beyond basic germination in the fall. The following spring, timely mowing is very important. Each time the WR hits about a foot or so, mow it back to 6". The WR has and allopathic effect on weeds as well as simply crowding them out. Mowing the WR sets it back without killing it. It also releases the Durana giving it more sun light. Over that first summer, let the WR die on its own. The Durana will fill in. By fall, you should have a lush Durana plot with zero herbicide use. Once fully established Durana is quite competitive against weeds. In fact, once I switched to Durana, I stopped mixing in chicory because the Durana took over the chicory so quickly that it wasn't worth it.

I agree with you that his adding food plots likely contributed to the increased weights. The particular brand of clover he used had no measurable effect.

Your clover plot looks great, and if the WI is working for you, I wouldn't change it. A large part of the equation is designing a program that fits your region and property specifics. Someone in ag country will have a very different program than someone in the pine farms of the south.

Personally, I don't use feeders. But I do plant a RR forage type soybeans in the summer with a light mix of corn. As far as choosing varieties of the same crop with higher advertised protein levels, you may be fooling yourself unless you are doing forage testing. Those advertised numbers are under optimal conditions. For example a variety that may be more drought resistant may test at higher levels of protein than a less drought resistant variety that is advertised at higher protein levels if you are in a drier area. Also keep in mind that there are some native foods like poke berries that are very high protein levels.

One last thing to consider. There have been no scientific studies in the literature that show mineral supplements have any beneficial impact on free ranging deer herds. Also, there are some risks associated with them. In general, point source attractants like this encourage more face to face contact than occurs naturally. Face to face contact is a disease vector for some diseases. So, if you are using them, it is a judgment call and the evidence is thin on both sides.

Keep up the great work, and I love the pic!

Thanks,

Jack


I tried Durana in 8 different plots with all different types of soil. Everthing you said I did. After mowing the weeds take off when the Durana goes dormant in the summer. Maybe i will mix some Berseem clover with Durana and see how that works. Now I have another acre with Lab Lab plus and Joint vetch, it is doing great but the deer are starting to hit it hard and I may have to try to keep them out for a week. I will park my 4 wheeler in the middle for a week and that should do it.
I also don't buy into that face to face about feeders and mineral sites. If that is true then Texas should have no deer left. We have no issues with it and if the deer are eating my minerals it has to be doing something good. JMO You are absolutely correct about claims of protein levels but thats all we have to go by.
By Steve S
#312604
Never heard of using 5-10-15 on clover. I use 0-20-20. I put out 300 lbs per acre each fall and spring. When I plant for the first time I use triple 17 and after that 0-20-20. I also lime a lot according to my soil test recommendations. 10 years ago in this plot my first soil sample showed a 4.8 ph.[/quote] I tried to find 0-20-20 and after not being able to find 0-20-20 in my area, the only dealer that had it is about fifty miles from me and they quoted me 21.50 per fifty pound bag. I found the 5-10-15 with the micro-nutrient's in my area for 12.50 per fifty pound bag did the math on what I was getting in the bag and been using it ever since You've had soil test done and if La dirt is like Ga dirt your told you need to add boron, that's one of the trace minerals in the mix, along with copper, zinc, magnesium etc., BTW, your Ph and mine were about the same, mine ran 4.3 to 4.8 here
By Steve S
#312606
Never heard of using 5-10-15 on clover. I use 0-20-20. I put out 300 lbs per acre each fall and spring. When I plant for the first time I use triple 17 and after that 0-20-20. I also lime a lot according to my soil test recommendations. 10 years ago in this plot my first soil sample showed a 4.8 ph.
I tried to find 0-20-20 and after not being able to find 0-20-20 in my area, the only dealer that had it is about fifty miles from me and they quoted me 21.50 per fifty pound bag. I found the 5-10-15 with the micro-nutrient's in my area for 12.50 per fifty pound bag did the math on what I was getting in the bag and been using it ever since You've had soil test done and if La dirt is like Ga dirt your told you need to add boron, that's one of the trace minerals in the mix, along with copper, zinc, magnesium etc., BTW, your Ph and mine were about the same, mine ran 4.3 to 4.8 here[/quote] BTW, about the claims, keep it mind what we're talking about with the fertilizer, it all goes back to the soil and the prep work, what any plant can thrive in or won't grow in depends on what its needs are
#312636

I tried Durana in 8 different plots with all different types of soil. Everthing you said I did. After mowing the weeds take off when the Durana goes dormant in the summer. Maybe i will mix some Berseem clover with Durana and see how that works. Now I have another acre with Lab Lab plus and Joint vetch, it is doing great but the deer are starting to hit it hard and I may have to try to keep them out for a week. I will park my 4 wheeler in the middle for a week and that should do it.
I also don't buy into that face to face about feeders and mineral sites. If that is true then Texas should have no deer left. We have no issues with it and if the deer are eating my minerals it has to be doing something good. JMO You are absolutely correct about claims of protein levels but thats all we have to go by.


You must be further south than I am. My Durana does go dormant for a short time in dry years for me and not at all in wet years. If you found something that works for you, stick with it. You are on the right track with 0-20-20. Putting N on established clover is asking for trouble.

As far as the face-to-face goes, it is a risk, not an outcome. The level of risk probably varies with location and the specific diseases that are present. For me, it doesn't take much risk to make me discontinue a practice that has no scientific evidence backing it up. It doesn't cost much presuming you mix your own, but that is money I can be spending on other projects.

By the way, do you have an experience with deer and pecans in your neck of the woods?

Thanks,

Jack
User avatar
By bowhtr1
#312650

I tried Durana in 8 different plots with all different types of soil. Everthing you said I did. After mowing the weeds take off when the Durana goes dormant in the summer. Maybe i will mix some Berseem clover with Durana and see how that works. Now I have another acre with Lab Lab plus and Joint vetch, it is doing great but the deer are starting to hit it hard and I may have to try to keep them out for a week. I will park my 4 wheeler in the middle for a week and that should do it.
I also don't buy into that face to face about feeders and mineral sites. If that is true then Texas should have no deer left. We have no issues with it and if the deer are eating my minerals it has to be doing something good. JMO You are absolutely correct about claims of protein levels but thats all we have to go by.


You must be further south than I am. My Durana does go dormant for a short time in dry years for me and not at all in wet years. If you found something that works for you, stick with it. You are on the right track with 0-20-20. Putting N on established clover is asking for trouble.

As far as the face-to-face goes, it is a risk, not an outcome. The level of risk probably varies with location and the specific diseases that are present. For me, it doesn't take much risk to make me discontinue a practice that has no scientific evidence backing it up. It doesn't cost much presuming you mix your own, but that is money I can be spending on other projects.

By the way, do you have an experience with deer and pecans in your neck of the woods?

Thanks,

Jack


To be honest I have never seen deer eating pecans. You have any experience with this? You have me wondering now. I will have to look into this.
User avatar
By bowhtr1
#312651
Never heard of using 5-10-15 on clover. I use 0-20-20. I put out 300 lbs per acre each fall and spring. When I plant for the first time I use triple 17 and after that 0-20-20. I also lime a lot according to my soil test recommendations. 10 years ago in this plot my first soil sample showed a 4.8 ph.
I tried to find 0-20-20 and after not being able to find 0-20-20 in my area, the only dealer that had it is about fifty miles from me and they quoted me 21.50 per fifty pound bag. I found the 5-10-15 with the micro-nutrient's in my area for 12.50 per fifty pound bag did the math on what I was getting in the bag and been using it ever since You've had soil test done and if La dirt is like Ga dirt your told you need to add boron, that's one of the trace minerals in the mix, along with copper, zinc, magnesium etc., BTW, your Ph and mine were about the same, mine ran 4.3 to 4.8 here
BTW, about the claims, keep it mind what we're talking about with the fertilizer, it all goes back to the soil and the prep work, what any plant can thrive in or won't grow in depends on what its needs are[/quote]

I have never heard of this with micro nutrients. I will use 6-26-26 if I can't find something with 0 nitrogen. As you know clover makes it own nitrogen so I try to get 0 so I don't feed the weeds.
#312654

I tried Durana in 8 different plots with all different types of soil. Everthing you said I did. After mowing the weeds take off when the Durana goes dormant in the summer. Maybe i will mix some Berseem clover with Durana and see how that works. Now I have another acre with Lab Lab plus and Joint vetch, it is doing great but the deer are starting to hit it hard and I may have to try to keep them out for a week. I will park my 4 wheeler in the middle for a week and that should do it.
I also don't buy into that face to face about feeders and mineral sites. If that is true then Texas should have no deer left. We have no issues with it and if the deer are eating my minerals it has to be doing something good. JMO You are absolutely correct about claims of protein levels but thats all we have to go by.


You must be further south than I am. My Durana does go dormant for a short time in dry years for me and not at all in wet years. If you found something that works for you, stick with it. You are on the right track with 0-20-20. Putting N on established clover is asking for trouble.

As far as the face-to-face goes, it is a risk, not an outcome. The level of risk probably varies with location and the specific diseases that are present. For me, it doesn't take much risk to make me discontinue a practice that has no scientific evidence backing it up. It doesn't cost much presuming you mix your own, but that is money I can be spending on other projects.

By the way, do you have an experience with deer and pecans in your neck of the woods?

Thanks,

Jack


To be honest I have never seen deer eating pecans. You have any experience with this? You have me wondering now. I will have to look into this.


I get very conflicting feedback on this when I ask hunters. Some say deer just hammer them and others say they completely ignore them. After doing some research, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that not all pecans are equal. One of the characteristics measured on the commercial varieties is shell thickness and how easily they crack. On some pecans, the filler between the nuts seems to have a high tannin content as well. I have had such strong feed back on both sides, I'm convinced that those experiences are real on both sides.

I know an old doctor who has been grafting for wildlife for over 30 years. He has been helping me with my persimmon project. He tells me that if he shakes a pecan tree and does not collect the nuts, the deer will clean them all up by morning. He sent me some particular persimmon scions this spring. He also included some of the pecans for me to try.

Hickory and pecans are in the same family so you can graft pecans to hickory trees. I have an abundance of hickory trees. Pretty much only squirrels use them because the shells are too hard to crack for most animals. So, I'm in the process of giving it a try. I won't know how it works for a few years. I'm starting with a variety that I know is used heavily by deer in at least one location (Mississippi) on the doctor's place.

The other thought is that use may depend on what else is available. However, this doctor has an abundance of deer foods on his place so that leads me to think it may be the specific variety.

I'm certainly not ready to recommend pecans yet, but I do think grafting native persimmons may be the most cost effective and efficient fruit tree available for deer management.

Thanks,

Jack
User avatar
By bowhtr1
#312658
Where I hunt my uncle has 4 or 5 big pecan trees. We do see deer under them when pecans are dropping. Was not sure if they were eating pecan or white clover growing under them. Persimmons are great. I have one big tree I bow hunt around and I dug up 3 more and have them at home in pots giving them a jump start before replanting in the woods. Two of the three have persimmons on them now. The other my be a male tree and not reproduce.
#312659
Where I hunt my uncle has 4 or 5 big pecan trees. We do see deer under them when pecans are dropping. Was not sure if they were eating pecan or white clover growing under them. Persimmons are great. I have one big tree I bow hunt around and I dug up 3 more and have them at home in pots giving them a jump start before replanting in the woods. Two of the three have persimmons on them now. The other my be a male tree and not reproduce.


You can graft the male and make it produce: http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47890
By speed2spare
#312660
Age is primarily impacted by letting young bucks walk which probably has the largest potential impact on average body weight. Nutrition can be managed by a combination of food plots, native habitat management, and management of doe numbers.

One companies product, no matter which company or product, is not the driver in increased body weights.


Out of all of the bickering back and forth. The above comments are what I believe as well. Age is far and away the most important factor in deer reaching a maximum weight. Young malnourished deer versus mature well nourished deer could see a good overall weight gain. I do not see the gain being 150 lbs per deer though. Either way, if you are getting 200 pound deer in GA I would keep on doing what you are doing. Even to hit 200 pounds here in WI you are looking at a minimum of a 3 year old buck.

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